Comparing Night and Dawn Post 4

You made a really good point in your last post Monica. The point that I am talking about is the will of survival that Elie and Elisha both have. They are definetly fighters, and that is one of the most important character traits to have in my opinion. What would life be like if you didn't put up a fight? They almost remind me of Athy in When Broken Glass Floats. So far in the book, Athy never gave up as her father and brothers die. It is a pretty common theme in a lot of books, and is really apparent in Night and Dawn.
Another thing that I noticed is that the book has different angles in it. In Night, the main character had no control over what was happening. He was just being pushed around, and pretty much almost dieing all the time. He had to sit back and watch as all of his family members died. But it is kind of the opposite in Dawn. Elisha is taking a stand. He is fighting back, he is part of the war. I feel that if Elie was in the postition that Elisha was in, he would do well. It goes back to my other post about how I think that Elie wishes that he was more like the character Elisha. Elisha has this sense of pride in himself. Elie has a sense of longing and depression. There is quite a big character difference in my opinion.

Post 3 of Compare and Contrast

Monica, I agree with you in your post that Night has a lot more emotion in it then Dawn does. Dawn has this vague sense of, how to put it, not being there. Night is real. Night is intense. Night shows raw emotion. Night broke my heart reading it, especially since I knew that it was a realy story. Dawn just didn't have that affect on me, and I feel that it made the story not as good as it could have been.
To be honest, I felt that Dawn could have been a better book. It really lacked compared to Night. Maybe if it wasn't considered Night's sequel it would be a little better. Just, basically nothing can compare to Night I don't think. To make Dawn better, I think that Elie should have written more about his life. It would be really interesting to see his thoughts on the Holocaust later on in time. How thye may have changed, or maybe they are still the same thoughts that they have been since the begining. I feel like they might not have changed, maybe even grew worse as he reflects over the times. There is a lot of time in life to reflect, especially on the sad moments. And obviously Elie has had a thousand life times of sad experiences. Monica, do you feel that Dawn could have been better? If so, what would you have changed to make the book better?

Monica Corcoro. Posting 4. Compare and Contrast

A theme that I saw in both books was fear. Both Elie and Elisha were afraid of many things going through their lives, and it showed that both had a hard time going through of them. In both Night and in Dawn, they constantly had life obstacles interfere with them throughout the novel. Night showed Elie going through the troubles of how everyone was treated in the Holocaust, while Dawn showed the expression of all the hardships encountered while facing the troubles of gaining something truly wanted. For them to get to where they were by the end of both novels they had to go through ups and downs just to get to where they wanted to be; and I greatly admire them for it. They are one of the few people who never stopped believing in themselves, and they got very far in their lives because of it. If only both Elie and Elisha went through the journey together, I think they would have overcome their fears a lot quicker because both had the endurance to overcome their fears, but if they had each other there, then they would have someone like them to help them strive even more.

Although both Elie and Elisha had agonizing stories they shared with the reader, I realized that not only did Elisha have to gain independence from Palestine again, but I kept forgetting throughout the book that he just came out of the Holocaust as well. Since I noticed this, I realized that the hardships in a person’s life never really end; you just have to keep trying to get to where you want to be.

Monica Corcoro. Posting 3. Compare and Contrast

I would really like to focus on how both Elie and Elisha both strived to do everything they could to survive under conditions they had to go through. Not only did Elie’s family die, like I said in my last post, he also had to undergo and learn a lot of techniques to knowing how to survive the concentration camps. He had to understand what the Nazis wanted and didn’t want the Jews to do for them. Regulations such as the age-range check was one of the first steps they had to go through before actually working. I thought Elie and his dad were quite wise about changing their ages to make sure they were not out of age-range for working conditions. Not only did he have to avoid being killed, he also had to be careful of ever getting in trouble because that would always lead to beatings or even murder as well. Elie’s dad accidentally made that mistake by wanting to go to the bathroom, and I just felt so terrible for both him and Elie. Elisha, on the other hand, had to go through a series of murder trials and executions of people, and that was his only way of surviving the Palestine territory under the English rule. She needed freedom in her home country, and wanted it just as much as the rest of her group.

Both Elie and Elisha had to overcome a lot in their obstacles in life, and although both stories are quite depressing, I am glad they both accomplished what they needed to do in their lives.

Monica Corcoro. Posting 2. Compare and Contrast

Abby, I do agree with you about Elie having the necessities needed for surviving the Holocaust. At the beginning of Night, Elie had his family to support him and each other in the concentration camps, but later lost them due to the Nazis of course. It was as if God was planning out his fate for him. What I mean by that is when he first got moved into the concentration camps, he had no experience or guidance to help him throughout his journey, which is why his family was there to help him. Later on, when his mother and young sister died, he kind of got the hang of knowing how to survive there. Once his father died, he didn’t really need his protection or guidance anymore because he already had a very good sense of how to survive under those certain kinds of harsh conditions. What do you think Abby? Do you think God planned out Elie’s life to be that way? Why or why not?

Another thing that interested me was that Elisha had nearly the same situation, but he kind of drove his own life in certain directions for the better. Once he got out of the concentration camp, he refused to go back to his home; which I found very strange. Usually, people would want to go to the place where they feel themselves, but I think the reason why he didn’t is that he knew his hometown was nothing like it was before. It was almost as if God was trying to steer him in different places, while he just had to figure out what was best for him in the end. What do you say about that Abby? Do you think fate brings us in different directions so that we can make the right decisions?

Comparing Night and Dawn

I also want to talk about Elie in this post Monica. Elie is such an interesting character, we could spend a lot of time discussing him. In Night, I would say that Elie was a rich character. I would not say that he was necessarily rich in the amount of money that he owned, but he was rich in character. He had God. He had a great family that he cared about. He also had a passion, which was learning. Then after the Holocaust and the book turns to Dawn, it all disappears. It seems to me that he has no sense of belonging. It is depressing in a way. Elie loved his family so much, and he choose not to go back to his home.
The tone of the two books has changed also. Night was full of fear. Dawn is full of fear, but also numbness and regret. Regret is a pretty hard thing to deal with. I do not know about you Monica, but regret is one of the hardest emotions for me to personally deal with. I stay up late at night thinking about what I should have done, or what I should have done differently. I bet Elie does the same, even to his day. I bet that he regrets killing all those people. I bet that regret is the hardest emotion that Elie has to deal with. He had dreams about it in the book. He probably still has dreams about it right now. Monica, do you think that regret is the hardest emotion to deal with? And do you think it is the hardest emotion to deal with for Elie?

Comparing Night and Dawn

There is one obvious thing to talk about. That is the character development of Elisha. I am pretty proud of this character, which is a wierd thing to say. I usually don't get to attached to characters, but i'm really fighting hard for this one. The fact that Elisha is getting a stronger faith in God makes me think back to Night. Night was the complete opposite. Elie started with a strong faith, and then lost it. I bet this has something to do with the author. My guess is that he regrets his decision on loosing his faith. I need to go read some more about Elie's life after the holocaust. Because this book has a strong religious sense in the way that he is gaining faith, I bet the author might be doing the same as he goes along writing. I bet this character is a reflection on himself. What he wished he had done. Who he wished he could have been. Who he wanted to be. I hope so, because Elie really needs something to hang on too.
Also, Dawn and Night are great basic books to see real character development, and well, undevelopment in Night's case. It's really obvious to see. In Night, Elie looses all his faith. In Dawn, Elisha gains his faith. Reading these books has helped me be more aware of how a character does actually develop. Has reading tehse books helped you in your reading outside of the books, Monica?

Dawn

I think I was right Monica! Those people that Elisha killed really do affect him. He does care. I talked about this in a previous post, about how deep down he does care about the people he killed and is not numb as he says he is. It is apparent in chapter 5 when the people he killed appear to him in a dream. I bet that forgetting a death is a hard thing to do. It is shown in so many other books and movies too. I can't imagine what it is like to take a life. Can you? I feel like it would scar me for a long time, like it did Elisha.
In this scene I am also seeing the real Elisha come out. He doesn't want to be a killer. This dream tells himself that this is true, when the child says that people are there to execute them because Elisha couldn't do it himself. It's a weird thing to think about. This man had killed many people, it would seem like it would just be a normal thing by now. But it isn't. Everything that he has ever killed does affect Elisha. I really feel bad for him. It is especially hard because the Night series is a true story. This story makes you have a really strong connection with the main characters. I feel like I know Elisha, and I know his pain. It breaks my heart reading these books. These are the hardest books that I have had to read. It makes you think about your life. About how you have it so much better then everyone else has it. It makes you a more caring person. It opens up your eyes to the real world.

Dawn

In chapter 4, I am seeing similarities between this book and 1984. The part that I am talking about in Dawn is when the man goes to the asylum and questioned him for twenty-four hours. They used violent force on him, as you have read. It is just like in 1984 when the party questioned Winston. It seems to be a really common occurrence in books. I think because it works is the reason why they do it. If I was questioning someone, and wanted information out of them, I would use force also. Because pain is a hard thing to deal with. Monica, do you feel that using force is a good way to get people to do what you want? Another thing I noticed is that I can connect this book to Freedom at Midnight. The Moslem's in the story made the Hindu's eat meat when they wouldn't. It's the same in Dawn, where the people who are questioning the man try and make him eat meat. I feel like that is a really important part. If you can break a person down enough to make them do the one thing that they will not do, it shows your control over that person. It might even be more affective then pain is. Monica, do you think that pain or breaking down a person is the way to make people do what you want? A combination of both could work very well, also.

Monica Corcoro. Posting 1. Compare and Contrast.

Something that I have noticed about both Night and Dawn is that unlike Dawn, Night is a nonfictional story that the author himself has experienced. It talks about all the hardships and obstacles Elie had to encounter while being in these concentration camps; including the death of his family. I feel like he deeply describes the situations of events very closely and analyzes them in such well content. He describes every moment as if the reader were right there with him, which I greatly admire in a book. The stories he converses about makes it seem as if the event was more intense and more compared to Dawn.

Dawn, on the other hand, was a fictional story that isn’t about Elie, but about another man who survived the Holocaust. Although this book had a lot more background story to the protagonist, the emotion applied into the told events were not as strong they were in Night. What I mean is that both books had very depressing and emotional stories imbedded into them, but the writing style of Night made it so that every word that was said made the story very gripping. In Dawn, however, I thought that the short events in it were not very interesting. The events were usually long and had not much lesson towards them in the end. I think the reason for this is that this is a fictional novel. Wiesel did not encounter this event himself, so the emotion while writing this was not as strong as in Night, when he actually did encounter those experiences. What do you think Abby? Do you think the emotion was as strong in Dawn as it was in Night?

The intensity from both books were different, but the writing in it is different as well. I enjoyed how Wiesel gave a little bit of mystery to who the narrator was at the beginning of the novel. Then later on, he reveals the character. This kind of writing is something I would enjoy reading again because it makes you wonder who is talking and why are they talking.

Monica Corcoro. Posting 4. Dawn.

I really admire Elisha for his both his strong faith in him and strong intuition in his beliefs. I have realized that throughout this book, he has always tried to overcome his inner-demon, I would say. The reason I say this is because he always converses with his peers and with the reader of how he has been afraid of so many things throughout his lifetime. Back to the beginning of the book, he constantly talked about how his fear of the dark affected his daily life, even when people like the beggar told him not to be. In chapter 5, he became afraid to even give a prisoner food. I think it was because he did not feel pity towards the prisoner, but remorse if he did give food; even though the prisoner told Elisha he was starving. Although Elisha did not conquer all his fears by the end of the novel, it was still clear to me that he was striving to overcome them as much as he could.

Elisha’s strong intuition in himself really showed and grew throughout the novel; which I also greatly appreciate. Right when Elisha got out from the concentration camps, all he wanted to focus on was his study of Philosophy and of God. He had so many questions in his mind about God, and really strived to learn about him; even when he was with Gad and the rest of the terrorist group. Abby, when you explained how he was not afraid of killing anyone, I think it was because he knew that it was his job and was the only way to get the English out of Palestine; his home country.

Monica Corcoro. Posting 3. Dawn.

I do agree with you Abby about Elisha constantly talking about the night and how he is afraid of it. You are probably correct by saying that he is afraid of the dark because that is when he has to murder someone. But I would think that since he has grown up to be a terrorist ever since Gad has taken him to be his own, he would have been used to killing people already; as if it was second-nature to her. As I said in my first Dawn post, the beggar and Gad would constantly tell him to not be afraid of the dark, for it was just like day only with more meaning towards thoughts and moods. So I don’t think he is scared only because of killing people because of him alone; but mainly afraid of innocent citizens dying because of him and his group of terrorists as well.

Throughout the reading, I have noticed how it didn’t matter to Elisha to where he was to be placed in the world after the concentration camps; all that mattered to him was to study the knowledge of Philosophy and of God. He was even offered to go back to his homeland, but for some reason he didn’t want to go. If it was me and if I were to be sent back home, I would definitely take it. I think he didn’t want to go back because he felt lost and didn’t think he belonged anywhere else but the place he was already in. He was there for so long that he felt he needed to start life all over again once he got out. Do you think so too, Abby? Or does my statement not make much sense?

Dawn Post 3

Going off your first post for Dawn, I agree with you, and what the beggar says, about Night. Night shouldn't be something to fear. But realating that to other books is hard. For example, I read "The Hunger Games" for my quarterly reading debate on banned books. The book talked a lot about the terror of night, and how you don't know what is going on. It cuts off one of your most important senses, your sight. The Night can be a scary thing.
I also agree with you in the statement that Elisha seems lost. I talked about that in an earlier post, so I won't talk about that part of it again.
I'm also seeing another part to the sense of God that Elisha feels. I was reading your post, and I realize that I might have been wrong about him. I was too busy comparing him to the main character in Night, Elie, to realize this. He does seem to have a strong, growing faith. This really makes me see the character in a different light. Maybe he isn't that bad after all, in a way. Besides the whole killing part. I feel that Elisha as a character will continute to develop throughout the story. I think it would be a good thing if he did, especially if he developed religously. It would all open up our minds to a new idea, and show the right path.

Night in Dawn

As I am reading, I notice a really common theme pop up. Well, maybe it isn't a theme exactly, but it seems important to the author. And that is night. Do you notice that Monica? Elisha is always talking about night. I think I know why though. Everything that Elisha does is at night. All the killings, raids, everything. I bet night is important to the author because that is where the violence takes place. Maybe the dark is a scary place to him. Do you think so Monica? Or do you think what I have noticed has nothing to do with the story?
Also, Elisha said he does not care about killing, but I don't believe him. Instead of saying going out to kill people, he says 'putting on the gray colors of the SS'. (30) I think that it is hard for him to say what he is doing. It probably brings up bad memories of his life in the concentration camps. I'm assuming his life was a lot like Elie's life in Night. He was always surrounding by killing, and threatened to be killed. Then suddenly he became the killer. If I were Elisha, I bet that would be hard to think about. All that terror that people were inflicting on him, he was now giving it to other people. That is pretty horrible, and I think that Elisha is repressing his true feelings about the people that he killed. So far in the book, he remembers exactly how many people he has killed. Each time, and how he did it. It is obvious that he cares because he remembers. If he didn't remember, he wouldn't care. Remembering is kind of like caring in a way. Do you think remembering is caring Monica?

Dawn First Post

In the beginning of Dawn, Elisha has some clear character traits to talk about. It seems that Elie wants someone to follow. That person is Gad. I suspect that he is looking for a person to follow, like a god. Since he no longer has his god, it is like he is alone. He needs someone to follow. Elisha is not a leader. Gad easily recruited him for his cause, as shown on page 11. "Gad had recruited me for the Movement and brought me to Palestine. He had made me into a terrorist." Also, it is clear that Elisha is a sensitive person. No one can blame him though, after he just went through the holocaust. As you already know, the Americans gave him the option of going home, but he refused. There was no life for him at home. I think that that would be something hard to go through. I know for myself, that family is important to me. I bet it is to you, Monica also. How would you feel if they were suddenly all gone? Home wouldn't be home anymore. I understand what Eliisha is going through. But besides sensitive, Elisha has a brave sense about him. He is willing to go out and kill someone.
Also, Gad is a really manipulating character. He knows how to convince people to do what he wanted. It was like he knew that Elisha used to be really religious, if he was, and he used that to his advantage. So Gad compared himself to biblical characters. "He said "I am Gad" in the same way the Jehovah said "I am that I am."" (14) I think that is what made Elisha really trust Gad. Gad could be the person that he had been looking for to replace god, like I talked about in the first paragraph.
Elisha looking to replace his god with someone else is a really big thing. I am pretty religious, and I believe in god fully. I trust what he does. It's hard for me to imagine a time when I would say that God does not exist, and I do not believe in him. Can you imagine yourself saying that, Monica?

Monica Corcoro. Posting 2. Dawn.

What I like and find very interesting about the writing style of Elie Wiesel is that in Dawn, he does not introduce the all the characters directly right away. Just two pages in, the reader is already introduced to the beggar and Gad; but they are quite vague descriptions. The narrator mainly talks about what they had said to him or her, but Wiesel did not really put the character into a distinct description of them. Not even the narrator of this novel is introduced right away. But in the following chapter, the narrator is already revealed as an 18 year old girl named Elisha. She ends up giving more insight on the other characters in the story, which I think is different yet well thought out of Wiesel to do in this novel. What I like about this style is that it's very mysterious at first, then gives character analysis after they have given the reader a sense of what the person is like. It gives the reader interest because the stories that are being told. They are quite interesting which makes the reader to not only read further into the book, but the reader would also want to know who is telling these interesting stories. From my perspective, after I had read “Night” and started this book, I thought the narrator would be Elie again, but in a different situation. But once I got further on into the novel, they finally introduced a different character in a completely different perspective. I liked how Wiesel made this novel so that it would leave the readers wanting to know more and more. What about you Abby? Do you like or dislike Wiesel’s writing styles?

Monica Corcoro. Posting 1. Dawn.

 Something that really caught my mind on the beginning of this novel was how much Elie was so naïve to the world around him. The beggar was the person who taught Elie “how to distinguish night from day.” Although he had many fears in his life, he was told by the beggar to never be scared, especially of the dark. “Night is purer than day; it is better for thinking and loving and dreaming. At night, everything is more intense, more true. The echo of words that have been spoken during the day takes on a new and deeper meaning. The tragedy of man is that he doesn’t know how to distinguish between day and night. He says things at might that should only be said by day.” (5) What Beggar was trying to say is that he should not be afraid of the dark because night is no different day, except night has more mystery and meaning towards feelings and moods created then.
 

Not only does the beggar help Elie go through life-situations, Gad does as well. “Don’t torture yourself in the dark…This is war.” (6) Elie seems to remember what Gad ends up telling him. I think it’s because he knows that he can trust Gad and that he knows everything there is on learning and knowing how to survive under these conditions. Elie seems to be very ignorant to the world around him, but since he is still a juvenile, it makes sense that he still needs support and help from people Like The beggar and Gad.

 

What I find really interesting about the Holocaust is that they make people kill each other. While Elie was in Palestine, I felt terrible when he said that he had to go kill someone by force. I honestly don’t think it is right for prisoners to kill other prisoners because they did not do anything to harm each other in the first place. All Elie could know about this person was that he was his enemy. Knowing that Elie is limited to the things he knows about this person, he still has to follow the orders of what the guards say to do, or else he would be executed as well.